You Should Never Ever Ever Purchase A Manufacturer Buyback Vehicle

"SteveLehto" (stevelehto) 01/30/2015 at 16:55 • Filed to: None

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From time to time someone asks me what happens to all those lemons the manufacturers buy back from my clients. Or, sometimes, "Should I purchase a manufacturer buyback vehicle?" The answer – based on 23 years of work in the field – is a Taylor Swift-esque Never Ever Ever .

For those unfamiliar, all 50 states have !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! which require manufacturers to buy vehicles back from customers whose cars cannot be fixed after 3 or 4 repair attempts. The defect must be substantial and affect the use or value – and sometimes safety – of the vehicle. What sorts of things have I seen in this field? Vehicles with defective transmissions, faulty electrical systems, engine stalling problems and more. When a case is well-documented I file it up and do what I can to get the vehicle bought back. I have never counted but I have overseen hundreds of buybacks and thousands of cases. Even in the cases where the cars were not bought back they often qualified but that is another story.

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When a vehicle gets bought back by the manufacturer, it is taken in and the dealer does what they can to repair the problem. Most are then sent to dealer auctions where the buying dealer is told of the status of the car and usually is also told that the manufacturer will extend a warranty on the car to make up for the vehicle's history. In some states the title is branded but this is only in a handful of states. !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! from time to time.

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The status of the car is not always passed along to the consumer who buys the vehicle from that dealer but that is not the question we are addressing here. What if you are told? Might this be a good buy?

I would say No. First of all, you are assuming that the vehicle is fixed. Before the car was bought back, the manufacturer was given a last chance repair. If they had been able to make good on that repair, the lemon law claim would have been defeated. Do you think manufacturers punt on the last chance so they can buy the car back and THEN make the repair? Why would they do that? It will cost them just as much to make the repair either way - but by doing it after they have 1) a ticked off customer and 2) a defective vehicle they have to dispose of.

I have encountered vehicles in my career that were not fixable, short of absurdly expensive repairs (i.e., "anything" can be fixed if you are willing to replace everything.) I've seen a car that had been in the shop more than thirty (30) times for a hellacious water leak. When the factory rep looked at it he told me it could not be fixed (short of dismantling the car and rebuilding it – at a cost more than the car's value).

I have seen cars that ate or destroyed parts at an inordinate rate. !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! , brakes, oil and so on. The dealer puts in new parts, the vehicle is sold and guess what? The new owner shows up a short while later, looking for a new timing belt or complaining about the brakes or oil consumption.

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Yes, the new owner has that warranty which covers this but do you want to spend your time in the shop obtaining your "free" warranty repairs? You don't mind? And when you have to come back again and again?

But wait, aren't some vehicles bought back simply because the owner complained about something inconsequential – or because they just didn't like the car? No. If that was the case, they'd be buying back cars right and left. It's actually the opposite: They refuse to buy back cars they ought to buy back until they are sued, and even then they put up a fight.

So, that Lemon Law buyback vehicle you are considering purchasing? Don't. Run away. And if you really think it is a good buy, here is how you appraise its true value. What is the car worth if it is not fixed and cannot be fixed? Pay THAT price for it. But they will never sell it to you at that price. They will tell you to take a flying leap and sell it to someone else down the road – someone who does not know what they are getting themselves into.

Follow me on Twitter: !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!!

Hear my podcast on iTunes: !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!!

Steve Lehto has been practicing law for 23 years, almost exclusively in consumer protection and !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! He wrote !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! and !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! .

This website may supply general information about the law but it is for informational purposes only. This does not create an attorney-client relationship and is not meant to constitute legal advice, so the good news is we're not billing you by the hour for reading this. The bad news is that you shouldn't act upon any of the information without consulting a qualified professional attorney who will, probably, bill you by the hour.

Photo by Petr Kratochvil

El-Verde > SteveLehto 01/30/2015 at 17:02

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FIGHT!

My money is on Lehto.

SteveLehto > El-Verde 01/30/2015 at 17:03

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I'm sure we can agree to disagree.

detailer4u > SteveLehto 01/30/2015 at 17:03

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Well done as always Steve!

mazdaspeed2 > SteveLehto 01/30/2015 at 17:04

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Was this planned or coincidence?

My 2 favorite writers here going head to head!

CarsandBoobs > SteveLehto 01/30/2015 at 17:05

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Steve and Doug both have columns contradicting one another. And both put up some good points, though I would never buy a manufacturer buy-back...

...this is like trying to choose which child is your favorite.

Thedude > SteveLehto 01/30/2015 at 17:05

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I am calling bullshit on this.

My previous Corvette was a lemon law buy-back, granted, it was due to the original owner complaining about paint issues. The vehicle was completely repainted and resold. I was the 4th owner (including the original owner) and I bought it at ~40k miles. I put just shy of 100k miles on it before it was totaled by a red light runner and the biggest issue I had with the car the entire time I owned it was the oil pressure sensor going bad, a common issue with a relatively easy fix. I modified the car quite a bit and drove it hard, and would still be driving the piss out of it if some tool had obeyed traffic laws.

SteveLehto > mazdaspeed2 01/30/2015 at 17:05

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Not sure what to call it. I saw his piece and just wrote my answer to the same question.

E92M3 > SteveLehto 01/30/2015 at 17:06

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Glad I passed on an E90 I looked at from used car dealer here. He was upfront about it being a CA buyback. He claimed it was because of a gas odor coming into the cabin, and that it had been fixed. It also came with a 12 month warranty to ease any concerns should it not be repaired. I almost bought it till I noticed all the bolts on the front end had been removed. There were socket marks on all the bolts holding on the fenders, and the hood. Meaning it was likely in a significant crash as well. Maybe the original owner made up the odor to get out of it because he himself didn't want a M3 with an accident history?

SteveLehto > Thedude 01/30/2015 at 17:07

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There are a few exceptions to ANY rule. Obviously, you can SEE paint. It is the things which cannot be "seen" like oil consumption and bad transmissions. You want to take that gamble?

As Du Volant > SteveLehto 01/30/2015 at 17:07

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Good writeup. I've dealt with water leaks too, specifically on Jeep Patriots. They'd pour water out of the cargo area dome light. I took in three of them myself under lemon law. Interesting enough this would happen on cars that were not equipped with sunroofs.

I wanted to clarify one point you made, though...

But wait, aren't some vehicles bought back simply because the owner complained about something inconsequential

You're correct in that they are not technically "buybacks." In these cases it's manufacturer "goodwill" that winds up in the car coming back to the dealership to be resold. The problem is many consumers get the two mixed up. It may or may not be an inconsequential problem; the end result is that the manufacturer wanted to take care of the customer so they cut a check to the dealership to cover the car's loss in value and the dealer takes it in on trade toward another new car.

I've dealt with many of these, but a textbook example is the first one I personally worked on. I had a customer buy a new Dodge Dart right after they went up for sale (with much fanfare). When the car was two weeks old the navigation unit quit. The parts to fix it were backordered and would take a month to arrive. This is after the car had already been in the shop for a defective cruise control switch. The customer (understandably) was quite upset and demanded we replace the car. Corporate stepped in, issued us a $5000 check (their estimate of the car's value loss for now being considered a used car), and ordered us to replace the customer's car. We took her old one on trade and sold her another brand new one under the exact same terms of the original purchase.

Her old car, meanwhile, sat behind our shop for a month. When its new nav unit arrived we fixed it and put it up for sale, disclosing its history to its new owner. It's been over two years now and the car hasn't given him a lick of trouble.

TimSee > SteveLehto 01/30/2015 at 17:08

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Yeah I know DeMuro is primarily a humorist, or at least his Friday "Ask Doug" columns are. Hence I didn't feel the need to say ARE YOU ON CRACK? Lehto FTW on this one.

Edit - specifically, the "Crack Part" of DeMuro's piece where my little warning light went DING DING DING DING was the suggestion that a PPI passed means good to go. "The dealer puts in new parts, the vehicle is sold and guess what? The new owner shows up a short while later, looking for a new timing belt or complaining about the brakes or oil consumption." - and that's exactly what PPIs ain't gonna find....

mazdaspeed2 > SteveLehto 01/30/2015 at 17:08

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Wow you wrote that in under 2 hours? That's impressive.

It's cool to see 2 opposing opinions here!

DerW220 > SteveLehto 01/30/2015 at 17:08

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Thank you Steve. I TRIED explaining this in response to Doug's earlier article which was full of absolute nonsense (as were most of the commenters). Of course it's full of prerequisites and necessitates legitimate evidence through a process. I've not only had to go through this process myself, but I've had to help my friends through it and watch my cousin deal with Audi 10 years ago before the Lemon Law update. For some crazy reason, people ACTUALLY think buying one of these is a good idea; they need to run away just as the original owners did. I figured you'd write about this. If you didn't, I would have. Haha.

SteveLehto > mazdaspeed2 01/30/2015 at 17:09

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I would have put it up sooner but I had to feed and walk my dogs.

I write fast.

aMaG1CaLMaNg1Na > SteveLehto 01/30/2015 at 17:09

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Many of the cars with safety related buy backs are crushed when the manufacturer buys them back.

Some of the vehicles that were bought back for non safety related issues simply had terrible techs working on them and a not too bright field engineer that couldn't repair it. Some of these when they get back to the manufacturer have the issues identified and repaired and the car is perfectly good.

Others have an issue such as a body creak or groan that are characteristic of a flaw during assembly of the unibody that will never be able to be fixed without drilling out every spot weld and rebuilding it...... which would never be done.

Regardless I agree, it's almost never worth the risk to buy a buyback. You could get lucky and get a vehicle that was in the second category but it's not really worth the gamble for a slight discount.

SteveLehto > aMaG1CaLMaNg1Na 01/30/2015 at 17:10

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I have never heard of a lemon law buyback being crushed. Every one I know of was "repaired" and auctioned.

I'm Abe Froman > SteveLehto 01/30/2015 at 17:10

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Ouch, @DougDeMuro!

What about the warranty though? Besides time.

Jimmy Joe Meeker > SteveLehto 01/30/2015 at 17:11

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After the earlier article I was wondering when this would show up ;)

I still believe that a fair number of lemons are created by incompetent dealership service departments and thus can be sorted out by competent people. The trouble is figuring out which ones they are.

SteveLehto > I'm Abe Froman 01/30/2015 at 17:11

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Except a CPO may not have been bought back due to an unfixable defect.

mazdaspeed2 > SteveLehto 01/30/2015 at 17:13

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I am jealous, I wrote one or 2 articles here a while back and it took me hours for each.

I'd like to start writing here again when I get some more free time.

cstealth > SteveLehto 01/30/2015 at 17:13

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Or maybe you're the Steve that he thought was Elon?

manitou820 > SteveLehto 01/30/2015 at 17:13

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2014 991 GT3?

SteveLehto > mazdaspeed2 01/30/2015 at 17:14

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It's easy when it's a topic you know well. I have had a couple I spent days on.

GeorgeyBoy > SteveLehto 01/30/2015 at 17:14

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Good article Steve.

I once owned a lemon vehicle and I didn't really know.

I inherited a Focus some years ago from a deceased family member. I drove it for almost a year before I realized a sticker on the door jam explaining the buyback, and something about it has "met Ford Motor Company's standards".

Putting 2 and 2 together I could tell the problem was with the motor/trans mounts. Of course I grew used to the vibration at idle, I did try to replace one only to have it fail shortly after. Probably one of those "do it in pairs" repairs but I never had it long enough to find out.

The next owner didn't seem to care when I told him of it.

Cowboy behind the wheel > SteveLehto 01/30/2015 at 17:14

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This one is a slam dunk. A lemon buyback was bought back for a reason. The only reason to knowingly buy one is for spare parts, but as you said, no manufacturer would ever sell one for that cheap.

SteveLehto > GeorgeyBoy 01/30/2015 at 17:14

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Cool. Thanks for the note.

aMaG1CaLMaNg1Na > SteveLehto 01/30/2015 at 17:14

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I work for one of the top 5 manufacturers in the U.S. We have a parking lot I am looking at from my office window now with about 20 or so buy backs waiting to be crushed. Every one has a nice big sign that says do not drive or remove parts, this vehicle is to be crushed. That lot has a pretty decent amount of turnover throughout the year so it isn't uncommon at all.

NotManyPeopleKnowThat > mazdaspeed2 01/30/2015 at 17:15

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When life throws you lemons, write a blog entry.

SteveLehto > aMaG1CaLMaNg1Na 01/30/2015 at 17:16

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The bulk of my buybacks are Big Three (I practice in MICH). I assume you are not Ford, GM or Chrysler?

aMaG1CaLMaNg1Na > SteveLehto 01/30/2015 at 17:18

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Nope, not one of the big 3! So that may explain the difference in the way they are handled.

AlexioFlexio > SteveLehto 01/30/2015 at 17:19

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Steve,

I have a 2008 bmw 535xi wagon... Lemon. The car was a buyback as were many cars with the same engine due to an issue with the ignition system... the system was redisgned and cars were sold on secondary market. I bought my $72,000 msrp car for $28,000 when it had only 5000 miles on it... and it now came with a 100,000 mile engine warranty instead of the standard 50,000. Best car I've ever owned, and have spent approx $2k to fix small issue out of warranty over 6 years.

rethink your advice to others.

MotoAndy > SteveLehto 01/30/2015 at 17:19

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Sorry, but I disagree. I work at a dealership, and while there are many cases where buyback "lemons" are a bad buy, saying you should never ever ever buy one is unreasonable. Every person should do their own personal research into every vehicle they buy, and sometimes vehicles are bought back by a manufacturer for reasons that are surprisingly minor.

SerialThriller > SteveLehto 01/30/2015 at 17:20

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You're assuming DeMuro can be reasoned with? He doesn't even own any pants!

SteveLehto > aMaG1CaLMaNg1Na 01/30/2015 at 17:21

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And also in how you and I can have two diametrically opposed - but correct - experiences.

Thanks for the notes!

SteveLehto > MotoAndy 01/30/2015 at 17:23

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And at the end of the piece I did note that if the price is right, go ahead and buy. You just have to know what you are getting into and price accordingly.

NotManyPeopleKnowThat > DerW220 01/30/2015 at 17:23

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I thought people read Doug's columns exclusively for teh lulz.

SensousLettuce > SteveLehto 01/30/2015 at 17:23

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I don't necessarily agree with this sentiment; it isn't so cut and dry. If you are sure you know what caused the buyback in the first place and there was a recall for the part after the buyback, you may be safe. Of course, this is a pretty narrow example, but let's call it the exception to the rule.

JCAlan > SteveLehto 01/30/2015 at 17:23

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You will also have difficulty if you wish to finance the vehicle. Most banks will not finance a buyback vehicle (at least here in Ohio, where they are branded titles.) I presume this is because of the difficulty establishing value.

Also, there is not a warranty provider out there that I have found that will add coverage to a buyback vehicle. In our case, even the GM branded factory extended plan excludes GM's own buybacks that they super-promise are fixed and fixed right. Huh. That should mean something.

Andrew Daisuke > SteveLehto 01/30/2015 at 17:24

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Banks won't loan a dime on a lemon law car will they?

SteveLehto > AlexioFlexio 01/30/2015 at 17:24

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If I based my advice on rare exceptions, then it would be useless. I pointed out that there are exceptions to the rule.

Consider that your experience might be the exception.

daryl bowden > SteveLehto 01/30/2015 at 17:25

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Thank god. Manufacturer buybacks are just their way of not getting lemoned. I feel like you are the Tom to Doug's Tavarish today. You have to be insane to buy someone else's problem. Don't believe me, ask the poor fellow who bought my old 535i after BMW bought it back from me.

Also, maybe it's just coincidence, but beyond just me, I've met 3 other people who have had BMW buyback their cars and nobody who has had a different manufacturer buy theirs back... Makes me wary of CPO BMWs in general since they try to pass them off that way too.

SteveLehto > SensousLettuce 01/30/2015 at 17:25

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I have not encountered a lot of these that involve recalls, before or after being bought back.

SteveLehto > Andrew Daisuke 01/30/2015 at 17:25

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I have never looked into that. I wonder, since it would affect the value of the collateral.

The Crazy Kanuck; RIP Oppositelock > El-Verde 01/30/2015 at 17:25

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But Doug has go out side and put on pants.

cj01 > SteveLehto 01/30/2015 at 17:26

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I had a 93 Civic LX that we got Honda to buy back from us. Four times, I returned to the car at the end of the day and the battery was dead and the A/C compressor had to be replaced. The fourth time it went in for repairs, Honda flew out an engineer from Japan to diagnose the issue. He eventually let us know there was a design flaw which somehow allowed the HVAC system to remain on even after the key had been removed.

At this point it qualified for lemon law buy back and so they offered to repair it and give us a 5 year extended warranty and free maintenance. Since I was essentially stranded four times and only ever got a 1989 Honda Accord as a loaner, I declined and pushed for lemon law status. They eventually agreed to replace the vehicle with one off the lot with the same purchase terms as before. I ended up upgrading to an EX coupe for $500 out of pocket.

Anyway all that to say from personal experience I would never buy a lemon law car.

Maxxuman > SteveLehto 01/30/2015 at 17:27

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And you write to get from point A to B, rather than A to L to X to H to P to E to Z to B.

SteveLehto > Maxxuman 01/30/2015 at 17:27

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Yes, but that is how my dogs walk (they rarely go straight from A to B).

gawdzillla > SteveLehto 01/30/2015 at 17:28

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but I want a fr-s / brz / miata shell to do ls1 swap

Andrew Daisuke > SteveLehto 01/30/2015 at 17:28

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Doesn't it seem like they wouldn't? It would be much harder for the bank to wholesale a car that had a branded title should the person default on the loan.

From a risk standpoint, I bet you they pass on lemon'd vehicles.

DerW220 > NotManyPeopleKnowThat 01/30/2015 at 17:29

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He has a purpose to his posts. The jokes are added in to help strengthen his pathos.

Maxxuman > SteveLehto 01/30/2015 at 17:30

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Not without P anyway...

David E. Davis > mazdaspeed2 01/30/2015 at 17:30

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He's paid to generate legal documents. You know he writes fast. Mo Docs Mo Money

SteveLehto > Andrew Daisuke 01/30/2015 at 17:31

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I'll have to ask around. It is an interesting question.

Thedude > SteveLehto 01/30/2015 at 17:31

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That kind of stuff is the kind of thing we check for with any used vehicle we buy. Any used vehicle we consider will get sent to a dealership or qualified mechanic for a full inspection. Researching the cause for the buyback can also be a determining factor. Since you're buying it from a dealership (more than likely) you can always require an extended warranty to be part of the deal if you absolutely are limited to that buyback vehicle.

Andrew Daisuke > SteveLehto 01/30/2015 at 17:32

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Nice, would be interesting to hear a lenders take on it.

Skamanda > SteveLehto 01/30/2015 at 17:35

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A thousand times this!

Yes, it's possible a manufacturer COULD be willing to replace enough on a buyback to fix the problem (the ship of Theseus comes to mind), where their last chance fix at the dealer wouldn't have covered enough parts to remedy the whole problem - but the cases in which that happens are exceedingly rare.

A old coworker of mine worked in the buyback repair bay VW has at its HQ in Auburn Hills, and from what he said, far more that goes on there is diagnosis to figure out if there's something serious going wrong with production than repair and refurb.

Unless you're more than willing to wrench on it yourself and potentially have to replace vast amounts of components, it's far better to just buy something else. If you need a deal that badly, that's what Craigslist and eBay are for.

OCRentAPopo > SteveLehto 01/30/2015 at 17:37

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To add to your argument, lemon laws (at least the few I've read) only pertain to new vehicles. New usually means never registered. So, when you purchase a buyback vehicle, you are purchasing a used vehicle with a questionable history and you are not protected by your state's lemon law. Maybe a good idea in limited circumstances but it's certainly not for most people.

CrymeLord > SteveLehto 01/30/2015 at 17:37

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@DougDemuro. I love your stuff, but I think I'm going with the lawyer on this one.

bbutle01 > SteveLehto 01/30/2015 at 17:37

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Is this article what Jez refers to as "Shade"?

Did steve just cast "Shade" on Doug?

I think my 10 and 12 year old boys would just yell BURN.

SteveLehto > Skamanda 01/30/2015 at 17:37

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You get 10 points for mentioning the Ship of Theseus.

SensousLettuce > SteveLehto 01/30/2015 at 17:38

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I think they're likely the vast minority, but a few years ago when I was looking at E90 335i's a lot of them were CA buybacks because of the fuel pumps. They were later involved in a recall and are a fairly safe bet now for a much lower price. You still have to be careful to make sure that was the reason they were bought back, but you could potentially save a lot of money.

bbutle01 > bbutle01 01/30/2015 at 17:38

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And how on God's green earth am I still grey on oppo?

Jimmy Tango > SteveLehto 01/30/2015 at 17:38

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If, hypothetically, one of the executive demo (people who work for car makers drove for six months and dumped it) were acquired by the dealer at auction, thus the comment on Carfax says

"Listed as a manufacturer vehicle Sold at auction".

Do you think it could be a lemon? It was never registered, so probably not a buy back. But it is listed as manufacturer vehicle, and sold at auction, which is two of traits that lemon get reincarnated to your nearby dealers.

If I were to get this car, it will still be cover by manufacturer warranty (since it's new), what say you?

WoodlandHills > SteveLehto 01/30/2015 at 17:39

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What about a car with a Magnussen Act violation? My Infiniti EX-35 was unable to be sold as a new car due to the window sticker saying it had an option that was not really on the car so it had to be sold with a lemon law disclaimer on the CA title. It spent 18 months an 12k miles as an untitled distributors car with MFG plates before I became the first registered owner. BTW with I got a smoking deal, 5 years and 49k miles ago.....

I think it was missing some sort of torque vectoring found only on JDM cars AFAIK or can recall

SteveLehto > Jimmy Tango 01/30/2015 at 17:40

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The reporting requirements vary from MFR to MFR and state to state. That is part of the problem. Most states consider that a "New" car (if the original warranty is in place) but the time requirements (too complicated to explain here) would probably kill any lemon law claim on the car.

SteveLehto > SensousLettuce 01/30/2015 at 17:40

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In that case, if you can confirm that was the problem then it might be okay. But that would be the minority - as you note.

SteveLehto > WoodlandHills 01/30/2015 at 17:41

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Mag Moss is often called the Federal Lemon Law - another can of worms altogether.

Skamanda > SteveLehto 01/30/2015 at 17:42

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As a Subaru owner, I'm pretty sure at some point I'll be driving the automotive equivalent...

Tareim - V8 powered > CarsandBoobs 01/30/2015 at 17:43

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the thing running in my mind is if it's just a lousy engine that keeps going wrong and the price is right, it's engine swap time!

Jonee > SteveLehto 01/30/2015 at 17:45

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"Doug, you ignorant slut."

Jimmy Tango > SteveLehto 01/30/2015 at 17:47

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how can I learn the detail on this? considering executive demo and this is the final challenge I am trying to figure out.

NotManyPeopleKnowThat > AlexioFlexio 01/30/2015 at 17:47

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Yes, because anecdotal evidence always triumphs over empirical data.

The Bimmer suits you well, I'm afraid.

SteveLehto > Jimmy Tango 01/30/2015 at 17:48

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I have no idea. In MICH, they can call a former rental car a "demo." Up means Down, White is Black and so on.

I just point that out to demonstrate how topsy-turvy this world can be.

WisconsinGus > SteveLehto 01/30/2015 at 17:53

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Does Canada have similar lemon laws to the US? There was an article on Jalopnik the other day of a poor guy in Canada with a Subaru Legacy that has gone thru 4 motors in 3000mi and now Subaru wont really help him anymore

SteveLehto > WisconsinGus 01/30/2015 at 17:54

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I am not 100% but I do not think they do. Or if they do, they are not as clear cut.

But if there are any Canadian lawyer/barristers in the house, feel free to chime in.

Jimmy Tango > SteveLehto 01/30/2015 at 17:55

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Ugh. Thanks Steve.

RandomUKGuy > SteveLehto 01/30/2015 at 17:57

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As I mentioned in another thread, my Lemon Lawed '13 Altima was re-sold (I googled the VIN) as CPO at a different nissan dealer. Not enough space here to list all the damage done to the car trying to fix problems. The tranny was replaced once, and failing again when I took it back... Ya I bought it new and had a "new car" warranty. Let me tell you how old it gets dropping a car off for "YEAH FREE!" work and driving a shitty rental for a week, or two, or in the Altima's case 60days....

Stiiles > SteveLehto 01/30/2015 at 17:58

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This is excellent advice that every buyer should pay attention to.

70% reliable > SteveLehto 01/30/2015 at 17:59

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Can you imagine how many fewer classic British and Italian cars would be out there today if our litigious nature had developed in the 50s or 60s? All the manufacturers would be bankrupt from lemon laws.

SteveLehto > 70% reliable 01/30/2015 at 18:00

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Or maybe they would have built better cars?

OdinThe1337 > SteveLehto 01/30/2015 at 18:02

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So some guy writes a letter to Doug, that is actually used for the letter2doug article, gets a typical Doug article that is fun to read AND gets a serious reply from Steve? Sure hope he bought a lottery ticket the day he send that letter, that was his lucky day.

You say: walk away.

Doug filtered: if you don't plan to sell it, ever, and it does not explode it might just be the right car for you.

Pretty clear: if you are not Tavarish, don't buy one!

SteveLehto > OdinThe1337 01/30/2015 at 18:03

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All I took from that is that my article was not fun to read.

Darn.

Capri83RS > SteveLehto 01/30/2015 at 18:05

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I bought my Mustang knowing it had buyback on it. I've had it almost a year, have put 10k miles on it, and I drive the ever-loving piss out of it when I'm in it. It's been better to me than the Focus ST that I bought new.

SteveLehto > Capri83RS 01/30/2015 at 18:06

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What was wrong with it that led to the buyback?

Daniel Seliger > SteveLehto 01/30/2015 at 18:08

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"Steve" Lehto huh? How do you feel about Teslas?

SteveLehto > Daniel Seliger 01/30/2015 at 18:10

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I have never had someone approach me who said they had one that is defective. So, I have no information about them re: their reliability and so on.

As Du Volant > CarsandBoobs 01/30/2015 at 18:10

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They're going head to head like Tom McParland and Tavarish do about buying new cars.

Nedus > SteveLehto 01/30/2015 at 18:16

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"I would have had this very well-written piece up sooner than pretty damn quick, but I had shit to do."

You have a knack for casually saying some Boss Shit™. Just throwing that out there.

Manwich - now Keto-Friendly > SteveLehto 01/30/2015 at 18:17

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My thoughts are that if the vehicle is deeply discounted due to being sold as-is, it could be a good deal for someone who is technically and mechanically skilled, has a well equipped garage to work on it and is familiar with the make/model.

But if it's being sold as dealer/factory "certified used", then they'll have it marked up higher and you're probably better off with a privately sold one.

SteveLehto > Manwich - now Keto-Friendly 01/30/2015 at 18:19

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And I have never seen them deeply discounted. The dealers routinely tell people they are fixed and will be trouble free (and if not, there's that warranty!)

Keep in mind that readers here are more likely to be able or willing to wrench on their own vehicles. My advice is for a broader swath of humanity.

OdinThe1337 > SteveLehto 01/30/2015 at 18:20

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Oops.. I can see how you can read it like that..

Your articles are always wel written, informative and very clear. I actually learn something from reading your articles. For me that is fun.

But a different kind of fun from a Doug article, where you laugh out loud at him and about him, wondering if he is drunk and not wearing pants again.

Different style, different type of fun, really enjoy reading both.

SteveLehto > OdinThe1337 01/30/2015 at 18:22

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I was kidding.

Thanks for the comments!

trunkmonkey > bbutle01 01/30/2015 at 18:22

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I used to have a star on here and I'm gray too.Don't feel bad.

Prophet of hoon > SteveLehto 01/30/2015 at 18:22

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Preach it, lawyer man.

I bought a Toyota Tacoma that was bought back just before Toyota had to lemon the car (I found this out after I'd sold it).

For that reason, I tell others to never to go law school after being in the real world for a dozen years - because in class, you will find out that, not only were you right, but that you'd have your own island from the lawsuit you could have brought (but for the statute of limitations) against the dealer and Toyota.

It's okay, though, I tell people I hate how awesome Toyotas are, recommend Lee Johnson Chevrolet in Kirkland for their amazing service monkeys, and tell yet others that the best machinist in the state of Washington is Jim Green at Green Performance.... okay, maybe I don't, but I do get a national audience to bad-mouth them and cost them far more than a lawsuit ever would have generated.

I'm kind of a rat bastard ;)

Prophet of hoon > aMaG1CaLMaNg1Na 01/30/2015 at 18:25

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Sir, you need to prove what you're saying. My experience (as an attorney in this field as well) has found a different outcome. They only crush auto show cars, magazine test cars (aka pre-production) and validation vehicles

Prophet of hoon > SteveLehto 01/30/2015 at 18:26

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Or Toyota either.

Prophet of hoon > CarsandBoobs 01/30/2015 at 18:27

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Which one are you going to have to pay money to if the advice is wrong? trust me on this, the value of a car is a good down payment on a fully litigated lawsuit.

Prophet of hoon > Andrew Daisuke 01/30/2015 at 18:27

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sure they will

Prophet of hoon > SteveLehto 01/30/2015 at 18:29

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banks loan on lemons... they don't care if the car runs or not, it just needs to run when you finance it and whenever (if) they check on it. Most contracts for cars have a clause that says if the car is rendered inoperable for a short period the bank has the right to repossess the asset.

the way this plays out - you wreck your car, decide to fix it yourself, and take too long to fix it. The bank is notified by the insurance company that they've either totaled and/or paid out (no they don't have to pay to notify - State Farm - ), the bank then does a check on its asset. If the car isn't fixed, or is valued substantially less than the loan amount - they'll repossess it then seek damages from the now twice-damaged owner.

Blunion05 drives a pink S2000 (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST) > mazdaspeed2 01/30/2015 at 18:30

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Personal experience helps, in situations when I've had to write up an essay about something I was extremely familiar with, hoooooooo-weeeee, I had it done real quick.